Now that bigtom has returned to us, my thoughts turn to tomhye, who is missed by many people in here, to include myself ....

So anyone who wishes to join in on a CYBERSPACE group hug to send some positive energy to tomhye, this is the place ...

Thanks, cutecat ...

To BT, Tomhye, and all those who have not been posting.

Let me in for a piece of this pie...

I miss Tom's humor.
He is still a registered member if one looks, so he could post.

I miss MrJim and haven't seen him looking since June 24th over on the other board.

miss FormerCIA and the others, including those on that other board.

TomHye.....your sarcasm, wit and knowledge are missed. C'mon back!! We miss ya!!

Graham, if you do hear ny updates on MrJim let us know.

will do.

The saddest part is, we may not. I don't know anyone with any contact info on him or his family whatsoever.

That is one of the dang things about internet boards, makes me very sad.
Someone should tell someone an email or contact info, etc. outside the board, just in general, sort of a chain.

OK Tom.... ya been gone long enough.

Surely you can stand (most of) us enough to come back.

and there are several others who are MIA or almost MIA.

CO
Pegatha
RWS
Marine

to name but a few...

I second every post on this thread -

Wouldnt his email be part of his profile he setup, it may not be publicly visible but maybe Michael has it. Just a thought. Maybe if you send him message via the board it may go to his email.

YOU ARE NEEDED!!!

jimiray
magmak1
wundermaus
armymom
dylangarcia (who actually didn't waste every moment chatting, but did good out there)

who can forget when Cindy Sheehan was the US's man standing in front of the tank in Tiannoman Square? Nobody else was doing anything but Cindy
did.Without Cindy holding Bush in Crawford...

And some good thoughts for tomhye's health, as well ...

And so ...

yes indeed.

Thank you, graham ...

This is a somber way to look at it but.........

The hopes and dreams these people brought to the board were like stones dropped in a bottomless pit.
We wait for a sound but hear nothing.......
We wait for the sound of the peace train.....
But hear only about the audacity of hope
followed by the beating of more war drums.

And the board membership withers away
like the memory of John Kerry's stand before the Senate Foreign Relations committee in 1971
The hawks and doves debate on the sidelines
And brawl as if they were supporting their town's soccer team

But does this board have a reason for being?

this is a different thread ISFU, this really has nothing to do with this thread.
but as you bought it up, all these people are out there

and that proves what livyjr and I have said for years

this board thrives.

The one million plus posts and the 100s of millions reading those 1 million posts

this board is a vessel transporting the thoughts, but the thoughts don't necessarily have to be here

we all bring forth with us others posts from other places where they are further distrubted

One doesn't need on this board to have but one person to further the opinions and debate along.

(aka-there is a running debate on the algore board whether that board should close, there are maybe 5 people still posting reguarly over there,
but then some of those posts get distrubuted here and there

Since 2000, media itself has changed
and the distribution has changed. From the days of soap boxes in parks, frequented by a handful, to this board having one million posts read one hundred million times, that is the essence

None of the voices, save those who are very ill or have died have been silenced at all.

And freedom rang out Nov.2008 and continnues worldwide.

but your post ISFU, and my answer should be a new thread.
I totally disagree with your theses(one you putout there before), and disagreed then too.

the peace train that was going to come up from NO to DC and all in theory worked with Obama's victory.

Katrina got in the way, however, Katrina was the vessel that singlehandedly showed W to the world, in the ten minutes where the press was not
controlled and the world saw through unfiltered. (and the articles today about the atrocities of Katrina, continue to resinate).

for example.
It was never about Cindy the person and her further goals.
Cindy the crusader got her message through, and bigger people picked it up

(as another example-
Micahael Jackson gets credit (wrongly mostly) for We are the World
But Pete Seger, Harry Chapin and John Denver were doing it for decades before Michael came along as was Bob Geldof, the true immediate inspiration for we are the world.
But individuals don't matter- it is the message not the person.

and you are wrong
silence like a cancer grows,
but the sound of the penny dropped in a well, was a atomic bomb, and it was heard all the world through
(you must have missed it through the bitter sting of tears)

I can offer some common ground for this common sense effort!

HUH?

What on earth does any of that rant have to do with wishing tomhye well, IS4U?

How does that merit a lengthy political statement by yourself?

Couldn't you just say you wished tomhye felt better without bringing in all that crap about this board?

All of the people who have prayed for this board to fail, or who have tried to make it fail have themselves been the failures ....

I am content with that, myself ...

And so ...

tomhye, I hope you are feeling better, dude ...

And so do I. I hope you will return when you are feeling better.
You are greatly appreciated and welcome here.

The Snuff

Thanks for joining in with the good will, Snuf ....

A beaming out of good thoughts from here to tomhye is the intention ....

And so ...

Who, exactly, is praying for this board to fail----or is trying to make it fail?

Your response is a cheap ad hominum argument----accusing someone of waging holy war and calling them losers for doing so.

If this is the kind of discussion that takes place on the stoop, then it's not stoopid, it's just asinine.

It would seem that I'm not the only one that needs to mend fences with Tomhye.

Geez......just look at this thread.

It reminds me of the game we played as kids where we stood in a line; the first person would whisper a statement to the next person, and that person would repeat it to the next person, etc. By the time it reached the end of the line, a completely different statement was heard by the last person than was made by the first....and it was usually pretty darn goofy!

What started out here as a general invitation for everyone to welcome back TomHye has turned into a suggestion that TomHye is not well and political bickering has broken out between 2 or 3 folks as well.

Sheesh.......look past all this, TomHye! Come back and straighten us all out!!

Forgive me if I seem to be "wallowing in this."

But I was admonished for not welcoming Tomhye back and I think the record needs to be set straight on his reasons for leaving.

As far as I know, Tom didn't leave because of any health problems, but we may need some reconciliation before he would be comfortable to return.

Nothing to forgive, ISFU.....I was not pointing fingers at any singular person by any stretch.

I'm just reflecting on this thread, as well as so many before as likely many more to come wherein the initial subject ends up being morphed to something quite far-fetched from the original topic title.

Proof positive of the old saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover."

To bring it back on topic, I miss Tom too. Maybe as a sparring partner, but I miss the occasional common ground too.

The "suggestion" that tomhye is not well came directly to me from someone who knows tomhye ...

It is because of that "suggestion" that this thread came into being ...

The fact that tomhye had some kind of physical problems has been known in here for some long time because he has said so himself to those who were actually reading and comprehending his posts as opposed to running down other people in here that they don't like ...

And I myself find what has happened in this thread to be quite incredible, although typical, I would say ....

Some people in life will never let any opportunity to be negative slip through their fingers, and so it is in here ...

And so ...

Snuf ....

You can "can" this thread ....

And so ...

Unless tomhye wishes to speak for himself about his circumstances and intentions, to "can" this thread is a very good idea.

On second thought, Snuf, could you pin this thread, please ...

Big hugs to Tomhye and all who have left. I miss many people. Like I've said before, we need to be more gentle with one another.

Thanks for adding your GOOD THOUGHTS in here, heart ....

I appreciate them for what they are ...

And so ...

I don't know why Bro Tom is absent...his health, his personal life (which could be very good),
or simpy a decision to drop out of a conversation laced with philosphical flotsam.

But when he's ready...there's an Abita Ale named Turbo-Dog, La. chyanne peppers,
a no-questions bed and board, and a friend, ready, willing and able to back him up.

I may not always be seeking him, but he knows I'm there. Any time, any place.
So when the time comes...there's a place. That's what brothers do...I know no better.

He need not answer, he need not call...until he's ready...but then...the gloves come off.

Love ya brother...and you understand what that means. We've felt "the wind".

Anybody is free to drop out whenever they wish, IH ...

Such is the freedom of choice we have available to us as individuals here in the USA ....

And thanks for throwing your arms around tomhye in here ....

It is the thought that counts ....

And so ...

I had an extended conversation with the man tonight...

He's clearer than I expected...happy and secure.

If you understand...the only guy I'm "gay" for is bro Tom...
'cause I love him...for whom he is and what he did for Katrina
victims. But, I don't have to explain that love...it just is.

Anyway, be happy for him...he reigns in Tucson...the desert is his heaven...
and, all is right with the (his) world. It had been a long time...a reunion of sorts.

The Armenian is solid...everything is alright in his part of the world...
but then...they are the most ancient Christians outside Galilee...in Asia...
so why is Cornealius not surprised. Centurians know Armenians.

Thanks for sharing that update, IH ...

I miss Tomyhe, and think that we suffered a major blow as a community when he left.

this was always tomhye's pet subject and new news came in the other day, so this is appropriate place to put this
Is this the smoking gun for 9/11 being an inside the bushway job?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=389x6191095

Bombshell: Bin Laden worked for US till 9/11
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 08:02 AM by lukery
Former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds dropped a bombshell on the Mike Malloy radio show, guest-hosted by Brad Friedman (audio, partial transcript).

In the interview, Sibel says that the US maintained 'intimate relations' with Bin Laden, and the Taliban, "all the way until that day of September 11."

These 'intimate relations' included using Bin Laden for 'operations' in Central Asia, including Xinjiang, China. These 'operations' involved using al Qaeda and the Taliban in the same manner "as we did during the Afghan and Soviet conflict," that is, fighting 'enemies' via proxies.

As Sibel has previously described, and as she reiterates in this latest interview, this process involved using Turkey (with assistance from 'actors from Pakistan, and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia') as a proxy, which in turn used Bin Laden and the Taliban and others as a proxy terrorist army.

Control of Central Asia
The goals of the American 'statesmen' directing these activities included control of Central Asia's vast energy supplies and new markets for military products.

The Americans had a problem, though. They needed to keep their fingerprints off these operations to avoid a) popular revolt in Central Asia ( Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan), and serious repercussions from China and Russia. They found an ingenious solution: Use their puppet-state Turkey as a proxy, and appeal to both pan-Turkic and pan-Islam sensibilities.

Turkey, a NATO ally, has a lot more credibility in the region than the US and, with the history of the Ottoman Empire, could appeal to pan-Turkic dreams of a wider sphere of influence. The majority of the Central Asian population shares the same heritage, language and religion as the Turks.

In turn, the Turks used the Taliban and al Qaeda, appealing to their dreams of a pan-Islamic caliphate (Presumably. Or maybe the Turks/US just paid very well.)

Accordingto Sibel:

This started more than a decade-long illegal, covert operation in Central Asia by a small group in the US intent on furthering the oil industry and the Military Industrial Complex, using Turkish operatives, Saudi partners and Pakistani allies, furthering this objective in the name of Islam.

Uighurs
Sibel was recently askedto write about the recent situation with the Uighurs in Xinjiang, but she declined, apart from saying that "our fingerprint is all over it."

Of course, Sibel isn't the first or only person to recognize any of this. Eric Margolis, one of the best reporters in the West on matters of Central Asia, stated that the Uighurs in the training camps in Afghanistan up to 2001:

"were being trained by Bin Laden to go and fight the communist Chinese in Xinjiang, and this was not only with the knowledge, but with the support of the CIA, because they thought they might use them if war ever broke out with China."

And also that:

"Afghanistan was not a hotbed of terrorism, these were commando groups, guerrilla groups, being trained for specific purposes in Central Asia."
In a separate interview, Margolis said:

"That illustrates Henry Kissinger's bon mot that the only thing more dangerous than being America's enemy is being an ally, because these people were paid by the CIA, they were armed by the US, these Chinese Muslims from Xinjiang, the most-Western province.

The CIA was going to use them in the event of a war with China, or just to raise hell there, and they were trained and supported out of Afghanistan, some of them with Osama Bin Laden's collaboration. The Americans were up to their ears with this."

Rogues Gallery
Last year, Sibel came up with a brilliant idea to expose some of the criminal activity that she is forbidden to speak about: she publishedeighteen photos, titled "Sibel Edmonds’ State Secrets Privilege Gallery," of people involved the operations that she has been trying to expose. One of those people is Anwar Yusuf Turani, the so-called 'President-in-exile' of East Turkistan (Xinjiang). This so-called 'government-in-exile' was 'established' on Capitol Hill in September, 2004, drawing a sharp rebuke from China.

Also featured in Sibel's Rogues Gallery was 'former' spook Graham Fuller, who was instrumental in the establishment of Turani's 'government-in-exile' of East Turkistan. Fuller has written extensively on Xinjiang, and his "Xinjiang Project" for Rand Corp is apparentlythe blueprint for Turani's government-in-exile. Sibel has openly statedher contempt for Mr. Fuller.

Susurluk
The Turkish establishment has a long history of mingling matters of state with terrorism, drug trafficking and other criminal activity, best exemplified by the 1996 Susurluk incident which exposed the so-called Deep State.

Sibel states that "a few main Susurluk actors also ended up in Chicago where they centered 'certain' aspects of their operations (Especially East Turkistan-Uighurs)."

One of the main Deep State actors, Mehmet Eymur, former Chiefof Counter-Terrorism for Turkey's intelligence agency, the MIT, features in Sibel's Rogues Gallery. Eymur was given exile in the US. Another member of Sibel's gallery, Marc Grossman was Ambassador to Turkey at the time that the Susurluk incident exposed the Deep State. He was recalled shortly after, prior to the end of his assignment, as was Grossman's underling, Major Douglas Dickerson, who later tried to recruit Sibel into the spying ring.

The modus operandi of the Susurluk gang is the same as the activities that Sibel describes as taking place in Central Asia, the only difference is that this activity was exposed in Turkey a decade ago, whereas the organs of the state in the US, including the corporate media, have successfully suppressed this story.

Chechnya, Albania & Kosovo
Central Asia is not the only place where American foreign policy makers have shared interests with Bin Laden. Consider the war in Chechnya. As I documented here, Richard Perle and Stephen Solarz (both in Sibel's gallery) joined other leading neocon luminaries such as Elliott Abrams, Kenneth Adelman, Frank Gaffney, Michael Ledeen, James Woolsey, and Morton Abramowitz in a group called the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya (ACPC). For his part, Bin Laden donated$25 million to the cause, as well as numerous fighters, and technical expertise, establishing training camps.

US interests also convergedwith those of al-Qaeda in Kosovo and Albania.

Of course, it is not uncommon for circumstances to arise where 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend.' On the other hand, in a transparent democracy, we expect a full accounting of the circumstances leading up to a tragic event like 9/11. The 9/11 Commission was supposed to provide exactly that.

State Secrets
Sibel has famously been dubbed the most gagged woman in America, having the State Secrets Privilege imposed on her twice. Her 3.5 hour testimony to the 9/11 Commission has been entirely suppressed, reduced to a single footnote which refers readers to her classified testimony. In the interview, she says that the information that was classified in her case specifically identifies that the US was using Bin Laden and the Taliban in Central Asia, including Xinjiang. In the interview, Sibel reiterates that when invoking the gag orders, the US government claims that it is protecting " 'sensitive diplomatic relations,' protecting Turkey, protecting Israel, protecting Pakistan, protecting Saudi Arabia..." This is no doubt partially true, but it is also true that they are protecting themselves too, and it is a crime in the US to use classification and secrecy to cover up crimes.

As Sibel says in the interview:

I have information about things that our government has lied to us about... those things can be proven as lies, very easily, based on the information they classified in my case, because we did carry very intimate relationship with these people, and it involves Central Asia, all the way up to September 11.


Summary
The bombshell here is obviously that certain people in the US were using Bin Laden up to September 11, 2001.

It is important to understand why: the US outsourced terror operations to al Qaeda and the Taliban for many years, promoting the Islamization of Central Asia in an attempt to personally profit off military sales as well as oil and gas concessions.

The silence by the US government on these matters is deafening. So, too, is the blowback.

----
Cross-posted at Against All Enemies http://lukery.blogspot.com/2009/07/bombshell-bin-laden-...

Thanks for checking in with your thoughts on the subject, Arneoker ....

This thread was for the purpose of wishing him well as a fellow human being ....

And so ...

I think our community suffered a major blow when you stopped posting so regularly, Arneoker, since we are on that subject ....

And it must be noted in here that tomhye left this forum of his own volition ...

And so ...

Then you've lived this and seen it work, so I'd lose that defeatist NCFOM quote. (BTW, I haven't seen either film)