I looked for a topic about this, but didn't see one in Online Cafe.

I happen to think it is NOT a losing battle and I don't know what's wrong with the "real" news networks and why they're sticking up for their slutty sister.

I saw this cartoon on Daily Kos, and think it's pretty accurate.

Have you seen the Media Matters compilation of Fox in Obama attack mode?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRx5ethd8JU...player_embedded

Fox is not news. They are the righthand of Karl Rove...

roger ailes helped to destroy America, Rupert Murdock got a break from the Clinton's

Obama should neutralize them, because unknown to most people, Fox is the only news people in more than 1/2 the country HEAR in one minute segments

It's not the cable channel, its the syndicated radio and tv broadcasts where they hear 1 minute of news, or headlines, all slanted against America values
that obama and patriots believe in

the hatriots are doing all they can to destroy America, Fox needs to be margianalized

ABC is as bad as Fox
NBC
CBS
MSNBC

all are one and the same anyhow
CNN is more rightwing than any of the others since teddy stopped running it day to day (not that it was ever liberal in America)
that is the 2nd biggest lie since fox said they were fair and balanced

you don't have to listen to news to hear fox news

just watch the simpsons, and the breakin saying
coming up at 10, and that is fox

watch American Idol, and people here Fox's 10pm news minute

The first lie is in the title Fox "News". It is falsely labelling itself as "News". Olberman and Maddow do not label themselves as Journalists they are clearly opinion. That is fine. The other diference is that Olbermann and Maddow have not ever been caught lying. If they make a mistake they correct it unlike Fox whose intent is to decieve. Two of their own reporters brought suit against Fox for telling them to lie. They won but an appeals judgement said that Fox can lie all it wants to, and the reporters wound up having to pay Fox.

This is what passes for Republican morality and ethics. This is Right Wing World.

I saw Beck the other night being told by some country western singer that he and his little blackboard means nothing to him and that Beck don't know what he's talking about anymore than the rest of us. Beck shot back that the cowboy hat wearing star wasn't a real farmer and he admitted it. In other words they're both phonies and they both knew it. They agreed on "honoring the troops" though I didn't hear where either had ever served. The star said he was "honored" by having a "real general" give him a tour of West-Point. Beck countered that he rated a tour only by a lowly cadet. The star said it's the "hat". You need to get a hat. It's all in the hat.

This sums up Fox for me.

Well Beamer, I guess the point is to marginalize Fox, but who watches them that doesn't already agree with them? Unless you watch, like I do, just to see what the madmen are howling about lately.

I still don't know if it should rise to the level of the president taking on Fox....what's the point? It's like the news organizations playing Rush excerpts...Kinda ups his status in my opinion.

Then again, I'm not against it much either....they ought to be called out for what they AREN'T! NEWS.

I think we were a better nation when there was only "news" and not "pick your flavor" and believe ONLY THEM....which is what we have now.

you don't get it though
it's not the cable news alone

people who watch the simpsons and american idol on Fox (regular tv) hear Fox News when they do the coming up on your 10pm newscast

that is fox's lies and propaganda that anyone listening hears and some people, that's the full extent of the news

It all started with Watergate. Things have not been the same since. News people are constantly playing these gotcha games.

With Fox, I don't think Obama has any choice but to take them on. They basically have declared war on the Obama administration and are out to take him down. They don't care what damage it causes.

But from a tactical standpoint Beamer, in your opinion, what would be the best way to do that? Is the white house using the best method for this case?

Watergate
where they set out to bring Nixon down, where clues were left like breadcrumbs to catch Nixon
where they did bring Nixon down

only the breadcrumbs that agent Woodward followed, were quite possibly left there on purpose

on total reexamination of Watergate, what one saw was not neccesarily what one got

Richard Nixon was done in by the same set of people that have now done in America the last 41 or so years
from the man who was the CIA to the same man who wanted to replace and had it set in motion he would replace Spiro T. Agnew and become President way back in 1974 instead of 1988, George Herbert Walker Bush

Watergate, where tape on the door was taken off by a security guard and not looked as to why it was there, until same tape was put over the door later
on

What IF the press in 1970s Watergate was either duped, or in on it way back then to overthrow the President?

It is too bad Obama is not the dictator the FauxFox says he is.
If he were, he should arrrest all of them, shut them down, put Murdock in jail, and immediately take away the killing instruments the rightwing has
take away their guns and their microphones and do so immediately. (and also their bullets).

and then make the presidential term 40 years long.
Obama forever.

this piece gets it correct
Fox in their "opinion nightly shows" have loons bring out crazy stuff

then put it on their morning news as stories people are talking about

without informing the public the ones who brought the story out to start is the same who is paying the morning person's salary




http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/...tworks-coy-game

The Fox Nutwork's coy game
by David Waldman
Share this on Twitter - The Fox Nutwork's coy game Sun Oct 25, 2009 at 08:00:08 AM PDT
Still puzzled about the difference between the Fox Nutwork and actual news organizations?

I guess some folks weren't convinced by the fact that Fox apparently feels free to simply change basic facts when they're inconvenient and standing them on their head would be more politically advantageous. Specifically, I refer here to the Fox habit of "accidentally" labeling every politician who gets indicted, arrested or defeated as a Democrat.

But Fox's "colleagues" among the actual news media still harbor some doubts, it seems. And if you're in the real news business, that's perhaps understandable. You worry about the differences, because unless they're very clear, you think maybe you might be subject to a call-out sometime in the future, too, right?

Though the White House tried to clarify it position when questioned this week, the difference between Fox and real news networks is something best illustrated by showing you their game. And that's just what Media Matters did:



Here's the Fox Nutwork playbook in all its glory.

When attempting to defend itself, Fox insists that the most egregious examples of bias pointed to by its attackers are from its "opinion journalists" (which they are), who are an operation separate from its "news" division (which they most decidedly are not).

In fact, Fox is designed and built to exploit the traditional expectation of such divides at the other networks, but instead regularly uses its opinion shows as a vector to whitewash their bullshit for the "news" side, turning even of the most outlandish and idiotic ultra-right talking points into something that wears the disguise of news. In the evening hour opinion shows (which, poisonous though they are, Fox is perfectly entitled to broadcast), you have your Hannity types spouting their wingnut applause lines unchecked, because gosh, it's just "opinion journalism." So it's all fair game when they come right out and claim Obama's a socialist, or communist, or fascist, or whatever the flavor of the day is.

But lo and behold, come next morning, the "news" side anchors pull out the infamous "Fox Question Mark" construction, dutifully delivering their line to the audience: "Is Obama a socialist? That's what some in Washington are saying..." Nevermind that both the "some" who are saying it and the talking heads "reporting" it take their morning memos and their paychecks from the same source.

The previous evening's attack memes, Fox folks will tell you, are supposedly this morning's "news," because, well, people are saying it, and they as "journalists" have a responsibility to cover that. And in their view of it nobody's culpable, because Hannity's a commentator, and the "news" division is just noting that "some" are saying it. Clean hands all around!

In reality, of course, it simply cannot be considered fair game to plant memes with the opinion side so that the "news" side can claim, "Hey, it's out there and we have a responsibility to report it" the next day.

And that, if you ask me, is one of the key difference between the Fox Nutwork and everybody else.

I don't care about the wars, its not too important at this time to me

You keep thinking YOUR pet issues are the worlds

making it through this week with the swine flu raging and kids all over dying, that is a tad bit more important than something on the other side of the world, were all those people have been fighting for centuries regardless of whether we are there or not

And Daniel Ellsberg (an Obama fan) who should know, has stated that the generals are going to do a coup'd'etat if Obama removes the players,
so he has to worry about those nut jobs whether he fires them or not, they got the guns and they are treasonous if Ellsberg, who never lied, is telling
the truth. He wrote the playbook for the generals back then.

Right now, the war on swine flu is the #1 concern...
last time there was something like this, an entire generation died from AIDS (including a lot of people I personally knew, right in the first wave of that).
Imagine if H1N1 is worse than AIDS

WOULDn't put it past the generals to have taken all the vaccine, and also to be the one planting the suicide bombers all over, coincidentally happening now

and I will vote for him in 2012, 2016, 2020, 2024, 2028 if it were possible

if not

Michelle 2016 and 2020

did you see her hula hoop? Did you see the public having a good time for a few minutes

Change

the big stink is gone

That is the change that came in...sorry you Obamahaters missed it

the big stink is gone

The difference between Fox and the other two cable news channels is a difference in degree, not in kind...

They need to make it clear that they have no objection to Fox saying whatever. They just want people to realize that Fox "News" is not really a news network but an opininion network. I would keep pointing it out and have surrogates do it too.

Apparently, the news media is circling the wagons around Fox, like idiots!

I don't think he should have started such a campaign against Fox news to begin with.
They could call them not news for all I care but to create an active move against a company strikes as Government going against the Press or free speech.

Even if Fox news has no credibility for me, and I think of O'Reilly as a lying blowhard and Beck as a lying closet rabid homosexual, they are part of the press, much like the Daily Enquirer.

Either way, the administration gives Fox leave to become even more radicalized and posture as if they have the moral high-ground against a tyrranical government trying to stifle dissent.

See, the Bush administration was smarter in attacking the credibility of someone, even if it is from an oblique manner. Obama can't seem to do that and just pushed directly against a news organization rather than destabilizing them through taking it against the weaker links. I am not saying this to condone Bush era tactics, just saying that in terms of fighting against Fox news, I think the administration is shooting themselves on the foot.

I think it is time to take them on. (Surprise?). The difference is lies verses truth in News. Fox lies everyday every time all the time. They have made lies into "opinion".

Opinion is not the same as lying. Only fools don't get that. Lying is a deliberate act. You have to know what the truth is and then tell untruths repeatedly to be a liar. There is nothing wrong with ignorance or at least it is forgivable. We are all "ignorant" of something and to some degree. But deliberate ignorance is wicked and telling lies is the express-lane to you know where. You'll get there far faster than on the road of "good-intentions".

Fox and the totally corrupt Republican Party started this fight. They fired first and have continued to do so. To not answer this barrage of lies is to give it credibility. Let Fox defend against the charge that they tell LIES. Bring it on all those who worship lies and the Father of Lies.

Maybe just maybe some Fox viewers will wake up and say to themselves... "Wait a minute? They've been lying to me? I thought they were telling me the truth!"

Then, it may begin to sink in that when someone lies to you it usually means they don't respect you. And you can then return that regard in other ways. For all those who don't care as long as they hear what they like.

Well they and the horse they road in on can go straight to.... (self censored)... and... (self-censored) when they get there.

Just my opinion.

the republicans are at 20% and falling quickly

soon they will be history

the more Fox lies, the less republicans there are, because people know republican politicians are the party of nothing
(like Seinfeld reruns, the show about nothing).

stick a fork in them, they are done.

and there is NO Obama media, the media has hated him since day 2

But Obama's ratings are going up up up, while everyone elses drop precariously.

even Jon Corzine has come back from 30 points down and is going to win this year.

I agree with you.
Just not sure that the current method is the best one. Perhaps you're right, I don't know.
The problem with Fox news is that if you were to hit it obliquely by targetting a weak link or a scandal on someone, they would just defend the guy as the only people they really care about probably don't really care about other news sources. So a Bush/Dan Rather maneuver probably can't be done to someone like O'Reilly.
And, a campaign against Fox news like this though allows them to act even more indignant and more ammunition to radicalize their base.
It is just a bad situation.

Having a propaganda arm of the totally corrupt Republican Party masquerade as News in a dumbed down America is already a "bad situation." IMO, since we are already in this bad place the answer is not to do nothing. It would be better if non-corrupt Republicans and decent Conservatives had taken a stand and denounced the lies coming from their political party and its mouthpieces. But they are almost extinct as they've been driven out of the Party.

Since no one can or dares to stand up from that side, we must. Obama is doing the right thing. He's giving them "hell" by merely pointing out what they are. He is telling the truth and they just think that's hell.

Just my opinion.

Wish it can be seen that way, unfortunately even to me it is somewhat over-reaching.

Only thing I can think of is to give more funding to Public Broadcasting such as NPR and PBS to have them more easily compete in the cable industry. A true and actual station not beholden to corporations and allowed free reign of their actions as it is now.

I'd enjoy a Diane Rehm news show.

Well then we disagree. I do not think it is over-reaching to tell the truth. Fox is ginning this up into a "War". The Obama Administration merely said they regard them as an "Opinion Organization" not a News Organization. They are not trying to shut them down. Let Fox prove the Obama Administration wrong. After all, all they have to do is stop telling lies. Shouldn't be too hard unless one is addicted to lies.

More opinion.

True.
Still, I tend to look at things at a middle of the road perspective so I can see how people could think it over-reaching even though I know that Fox should tell the truth.
Problem is, the "truth" to people is really a point of perspective at times and they hear what they want to hear.
I don't see it being productive to go after Fox this way, but if it does some good, then I'd be happy about it. Otherwise, I think they are shooting themselves on the foot. In this, I hope I'm wrong.