You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Full Version: Lieberman To Filibuster Dem Health Care Bill
people who pay cheapie insurance (like op above in the $300.00 range NEED TO PAY MORE
people who pay $2750 a month (like me) need to pay less
everyone should pay say $1000 a month
one people one rate
like a box of cereal. Same price in the supermarket no matter if you are black or white, rich or poor
one insurance for all.
that is the American way-
ALL ARE CREATED EQUAL.
people who pay $2750 a month (like me) need to pay less
everyone should pay say $1000 a month
one people one rate
like a box of cereal. Same price in the supermarket no matter if you are black or white, rich or poor
one insurance for all.
that is the American way-
ALL ARE CREATED EQUAL.
Could not disagree with you more, Beamer.
QUOTE(Pegatha @ Oct 27 2009, 08:25 PM) 
Could not disagree with you more, Beamer.
The goal of health care reform should be to reduce costs and cover more people. The only way to do this is to increase choice by consumers and competition in the insurance market. Having the government compete with private insurers will skew the insurance market and make it artificial - just like Medicare and Medicaid have done to the health care market. It is the government's interference in the health care market that is to a great degree responsible for the rest of us paying so much for health care.
By the way, having government insurance compete with the private sector will not hurt the big insurers, but will drive the smaller ones out of business because they will not be able to compete with the government, as the government can hide inefficiencies and keep costs down through taxpayer subsidies.
The only way to increase competition and drive down costs in the insurance market (and medical costs in general) is to make people responsible for their own health insurance and health care expenses. You need to get third parties out of the equation. That means separating employers from the health-insurance-providing-business. Unions and big business don't like this, but the employer-based model is unsustainable. And, Americans do not want a single payer, government-run health care system, whether it's more efficient or not. Single payer means rationing health care. There is no other way to keep costs down.
by the way beamer- have you seen this post by our administrator Michael-
Please contact Michael or Snuffysmith
Please contact Michael or Snuffysmith
QUOTE(Michael @ Oct 11 2009, 12:38 PM)
Hello everyone,
Currently (thanks to donations) CGCS is solvent until the end of December 2009. The cost of keeping the forum running is $120.00 per month. This is $1,440.00 per year. I have never taken any money from CGCS and have spent quite a bit. Generous donations from subscribing members have really been what is keeping the forum going. The subscription fees aren't really covering expenses.
If the forum is to continue into 2010, we need donations to make us solvent. Most subscriptions won't need to be renewed until April 2010 so we can't count on much help there. What we need is about $1,500.00 per year to keep going. I know some have suggested increasing subscription fees, but I don't see that as a sure source of income. Some have suggested advertising, but we only get money if people click through the ads and I really like that the site is ad-free.
Therefore, I see the only realistic means of keeping going is donations.
$150.00 each from 10 people would do it.
$75.00 each from 20 people would do it.
$50.00 each from 30 people would do it.
I know this is a tough economy, I can attest to that personally because I have been struggling to find work for over a year and my personal savings are just about depleted. This is mainly why I have not been around much, but thankfully it seems that the number of disputes that needed to be resolved (those that can be) have been very few over the last year. I have been struggling for my own survival, have no health care and have been battling serious illness for over a year and paying out of pocket for prescription meds.
I really don't want this to be a discussion about the shortcomings of the forum, just a call for donations. Are there 30 subscribing members than can donate $50.00 each to keep this forum going, or some combination of the above list?
Please respond here or feel free to PM me if you would rather contact me privately.
As always kindest regards,
Michael
Currently (thanks to donations) CGCS is solvent until the end of December 2009. The cost of keeping the forum running is $120.00 per month. This is $1,440.00 per year. I have never taken any money from CGCS and have spent quite a bit. Generous donations from subscribing members have really been what is keeping the forum going. The subscription fees aren't really covering expenses.
If the forum is to continue into 2010, we need donations to make us solvent. Most subscriptions won't need to be renewed until April 2010 so we can't count on much help there. What we need is about $1,500.00 per year to keep going. I know some have suggested increasing subscription fees, but I don't see that as a sure source of income. Some have suggested advertising, but we only get money if people click through the ads and I really like that the site is ad-free.
Therefore, I see the only realistic means of keeping going is donations.
$150.00 each from 10 people would do it.
$75.00 each from 20 people would do it.
$50.00 each from 30 people would do it.
I know this is a tough economy, I can attest to that personally because I have been struggling to find work for over a year and my personal savings are just about depleted. This is mainly why I have not been around much, but thankfully it seems that the number of disputes that needed to be resolved (those that can be) have been very few over the last year. I have been struggling for my own survival, have no health care and have been battling serious illness for over a year and paying out of pocket for prescription meds.
I really don't want this to be a discussion about the shortcomings of the forum, just a call for donations. Are there 30 subscribing members than can donate $50.00 each to keep this forum going, or some combination of the above list?
Please respond here or feel free to PM me if you would rather contact me privately.
As always kindest regards,
Michael
pathetic
health care is now rationed
the rich get it
How else do you explain schmuckSteve Jobs still alive, while any other person with same disease died 6 months after catching it?
Becasue someone like schmuckSteve Jobs is a blood sucker, probably drinks viles of some elixir made of dead people to stay alive spending billions
Every year millions need organs, and only a couple percent get them
that already is rationed care
really pathetic
and the day you lose your personal job and no longer have your plan, you will hypocriticially then want what you don't have
and you completely ignore all the sole proprietors now and individual family plans who are going bankrupt paying the monthly premiums
so you need to get your head out of your own greed and look at the big picture.
YES- your costs should go up. Because the national average should be what every pays
Your measley $300 a month should be $1000 a month
sheesh, I can picture you pushing all the kids out of the way on the Titanic to grab the first lifeboat.
AND 77% OF AMERICANS WANT A PUBLIC OPTION the numbers get bigger and bigger wanting one, when people understand what it is
Greedy is those with almost free monthly costs wanting to stop the larger number of citizens
health care is now rationed
the rich get it
How else do you explain schmuckSteve Jobs still alive, while any other person with same disease died 6 months after catching it?
Becasue someone like schmuckSteve Jobs is a blood sucker, probably drinks viles of some elixir made of dead people to stay alive spending billions
Every year millions need organs, and only a couple percent get them
that already is rationed care
really pathetic
and the day you lose your personal job and no longer have your plan, you will hypocriticially then want what you don't have
and you completely ignore all the sole proprietors now and individual family plans who are going bankrupt paying the monthly premiums
so you need to get your head out of your own greed and look at the big picture.
YES- your costs should go up. Because the national average should be what every pays
Your measley $300 a month should be $1000 a month
sheesh, I can picture you pushing all the kids out of the way on the Titanic to grab the first lifeboat.
AND 77% OF AMERICANS WANT A PUBLIC OPTION the numbers get bigger and bigger wanting one, when people understand what it is
Greedy is those with almost free monthly costs wanting to stop the larger number of citizens
OK, I retract all the nice things I ever said about Joe Lieberman.
I even refuse to recognize him as a Jew. He's a traitor and an apostate. No one who is Jewish who would stop a vote to provide people with health care! That's one of the first tenets of Judaism! Heal the sick, feed the hungry, lift up the fallen!!
It's all because he lives in the state of insurance companies....Hartford has the most insurance companies of any city in the US.
Off with his head!
I even refuse to recognize him as a Jew. He's a traitor and an apostate. No one who is Jewish who would stop a vote to provide people with health care! That's one of the first tenets of Judaism! Heal the sick, feed the hungry, lift up the fallen!!
It's all because he lives in the state of insurance companies....Hartford has the most insurance companies of any city in the US.
Off with his head!
Shouldn't the "default" position be that your organs are donated at death rather than the default position that you don't. I think you should have to opt out of it rather than opt in.
QUOTE(heart @ Oct 28 2009, 07:09 PM)
Shouldn't the "default" position be that your organs are donated at death rather than the default position that you don't. I think you should have to opt out of it rather than opt in.
No, it should not, most definitely.
The "default" position in anything takes away choice. It's my body, my organs, and if I want you to keep your hands off of them, then you have no right to them. Same thing applies to many other things.
Now, for the record, as someone dedicated to life-saving, I was a card-carrying organ donor, renewed serially through the Registry of Motor Vehicles. No longer... Why should I allow some middle man to make a profit off my body parts and stick the money into his account?
With that kind of thinking, pretty soon you're gonna have us in a default situation where we have to opt out of...
war
war crimes
support for Zionism
mandatory infusion of psychiatric pharmaceuticals ("what's wrong with everyone being happy?!")
automatic checking account withdrawals to the Goldman Sachs enterprise
No, thanks. I gave at the office.
As for Joe Lieberman, you do not want to read what Ed Encho had to say over coffee this morning at Station Charon.
No, I think you should be able to opt out of organ donorship as easily as you could opt in....but if you don't opt out, then you should be considered "in".
Why would you need your organs, you are dead.
You don't want a middle man to make money off of your organs so you will deny some poor sick person a kidney or liver or lung? Isn't that an awful spiteful point of view on the situation? Do you think that NOT donating your organs is going to stop the middle man from making money? No, likely just cause the sick man to die.
The only reason I can think of for not being an organ donor are religious reasons.
What the hell does what I said have to do with war crimes or zionism....I'm talking about saving lives here.....You just trying to get my goat again?
What you must think of me? Harrrumph!
Why? I'm going to look it up. Is it "good" or "Bad". I've had it with him! HOW DARE HE! Does that make me arrogant too, that I can say "HOW DARE HE"...Did I just become a mass murderer because I deemed to pass judgment? From your comments toward me lately, it seems like you would be willing to lynch me for a whole series of crimes that I wouldn't ever condone.
p.s. I just looked at it, you need to quit reading that hate filled ad hominem crap! It's tainting your rational mind. It has nothing to do with Lieberman being a JEW....a WANDERING JEW! It has everything to do with the fact that all the insurance companies are in Connecticut!
Why would you need your organs, you are dead.
You don't want a middle man to make money off of your organs so you will deny some poor sick person a kidney or liver or lung? Isn't that an awful spiteful point of view on the situation? Do you think that NOT donating your organs is going to stop the middle man from making money? No, likely just cause the sick man to die.
The only reason I can think of for not being an organ donor are religious reasons.
What the hell does what I said have to do with war crimes or zionism....I'm talking about saving lives here.....You just trying to get my goat again?
What you must think of me? Harrrumph!QUOTE
As for Joe Lieberman, you do not want to read what Ed Encho had to say over coffee this morning at Station Charon.
Why? I'm going to look it up. Is it "good" or "Bad". I've had it with him! HOW DARE HE! Does that make me arrogant too, that I can say "HOW DARE HE"...Did I just become a mass murderer because I deemed to pass judgment? From your comments toward me lately, it seems like you would be willing to lynch me for a whole series of crimes that I wouldn't ever condone.
p.s. I just looked at it, you need to quit reading that hate filled ad hominem crap! It's tainting your rational mind. It has nothing to do with Lieberman being a JEW....a WANDERING JEW! It has everything to do with the fact that all the insurance companies are in Connecticut!
From Wiki
Hartford is the capital city of the U.S. state of Connecticut. It is located in Hartford County on the Connecticut River....
Nicknamed the "Insurance Capital of the World", Hartford houses many of the world's insurance company headquarters, and insurance remains the region's major industry.
Economy
Hartford is the historic international center of the insurance industry, with companies such as Travelers, Aetna, The Hartford, The Phoenix Companies, Inc. and Hartford Steam Boiler based in the city. The area is also home to CIGNA, Colt Firearms, U.S. Fire Arms and United Technologies.
Nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century Hartford was a major manufacturing and publishing city. Among these was the pioneer bicycle (and later) automobile maker Pope.[22] As in many northern industrial cities, many factories have been closed, relocated, or reduced operations.
Despite the city's lengthy history with the insurance industry, various insurers have recently left Hartford and moved their operations to other locations, including to some of Hartford's suburbs. Citing the tax structure in the city and parking shortages, MetLife recently vacated several floors in CityPlace, Connecticut's largest office building, and joined CIGNA in a large suburban campus in Bloomfield, Connecticut. Lincoln Financial has recently cut its Hartford workforce, while Travelers elected to construct a sprawling training complex in Windsor, Connecticut, just north of the city. Additionally, MassMutual recently relocated its Hartford operations to Enfield, Connecticut, to be closer to its headquarters in Springfield, Massachusetts, and the insurance giant The Hartford has relocated some of its employees to nearby Simsbury, Connecticut.
At the same time, many companies have moved to or expanded in the central business district and surrounding neighborhoods. Aetna announced mid-decade that by 2010 it would move nearly 3,500 employees from its Middletown, Connecticut offices to its corporate headquarters in the Asylum Hill section of the city. Travelers recently expanded its operations at several downtown locations. In 2008, Sovereign Bank consolidated two bank branches as well as its regional headquarters in a nineteenth century palazzo on Asylum Street. In 2009, Northeast Utilities, a Fortune 500 company and New England's largest energy utility, announced it would establish its corporate headquarters downtown. In the same year, work began at the southeastern corner of Constitution Plaza on the AI Technology Center, the future headquarters of the eponymous engineering firm. AI's chief executive helped finance the building, the first commercially leasable structure in Connecticut to be certified at the platinum level under the US Green Building Council's LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) program. Other recent entrants into the downtown market include GlobeOp Financial Services, internet startup Geezeo and specialty insurance broker S.H. Smith.
[one of the reasons I didn't get my actuarial license was because I didn't want to live in Hartford!]
Hartford is the capital city of the U.S. state of Connecticut. It is located in Hartford County on the Connecticut River....
Nicknamed the "Insurance Capital of the World", Hartford houses many of the world's insurance company headquarters, and insurance remains the region's major industry.
Economy
Hartford is the historic international center of the insurance industry, with companies such as Travelers, Aetna, The Hartford, The Phoenix Companies, Inc. and Hartford Steam Boiler based in the city. The area is also home to CIGNA, Colt Firearms, U.S. Fire Arms and United Technologies.
Nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century Hartford was a major manufacturing and publishing city. Among these was the pioneer bicycle (and later) automobile maker Pope.[22] As in many northern industrial cities, many factories have been closed, relocated, or reduced operations.
Despite the city's lengthy history with the insurance industry, various insurers have recently left Hartford and moved their operations to other locations, including to some of Hartford's suburbs. Citing the tax structure in the city and parking shortages, MetLife recently vacated several floors in CityPlace, Connecticut's largest office building, and joined CIGNA in a large suburban campus in Bloomfield, Connecticut. Lincoln Financial has recently cut its Hartford workforce, while Travelers elected to construct a sprawling training complex in Windsor, Connecticut, just north of the city. Additionally, MassMutual recently relocated its Hartford operations to Enfield, Connecticut, to be closer to its headquarters in Springfield, Massachusetts, and the insurance giant The Hartford has relocated some of its employees to nearby Simsbury, Connecticut.
At the same time, many companies have moved to or expanded in the central business district and surrounding neighborhoods. Aetna announced mid-decade that by 2010 it would move nearly 3,500 employees from its Middletown, Connecticut offices to its corporate headquarters in the Asylum Hill section of the city. Travelers recently expanded its operations at several downtown locations. In 2008, Sovereign Bank consolidated two bank branches as well as its regional headquarters in a nineteenth century palazzo on Asylum Street. In 2009, Northeast Utilities, a Fortune 500 company and New England's largest energy utility, announced it would establish its corporate headquarters downtown. In the same year, work began at the southeastern corner of Constitution Plaza on the AI Technology Center, the future headquarters of the eponymous engineering firm. AI's chief executive helped finance the building, the first commercially leasable structure in Connecticut to be certified at the platinum level under the US Green Building Council's LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) program. Other recent entrants into the downtown market include GlobeOp Financial Services, internet startup Geezeo and specialty insurance broker S.H. Smith.
[one of the reasons I didn't get my actuarial license was because I didn't want to live in Hartford!]
In any attempt to find common ground, I can at least agree with this very well worded statement:
QUOTE
Right when Casper Milquetoast Harry Reid finally grows a set and includes a piss warm public option in the Senate version of the insipid, industry friendly health care ‘reform’ bill with opt outs set up for the states in Peckerwood Nation that want to keep their people fat, dumb, sick and stupid it’s good ole Joe Lieberman who is now upsetting the applecart with his intention to join the Republican filibuster (well not really a filibuster because those just aren’t done anymore) to protect the insurance parasites
QUOTE(heart @ Oct 28 2009, 07:54 PM)
From Wiki
Hartford is the capital city of the U.S. state of Connecticut. It is located in Hartford County on the Connecticut River....
Nicknamed the "Insurance Capital of the World", Hartford houses many of the world's insurance company headquarters, and insurance remains the region's major industry.
Economy
Hartford is the historic international center of the insurance industry, with companies such as Travelers, Aetna, The Hartford, The Phoenix Companies, Inc. and Hartford Steam Boiler based in the city. The area is also home to CIGNA, Colt Firearms, U.S. Fire Arms and United Technologies.
Nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century Hartford was a major manufacturing and publishing city. Among these was the pioneer bicycle (and later) automobile maker Pope.[22] As in many northern industrial cities, many factories have been closed, relocated, or reduced operations.
Despite the city's lengthy history with the insurance industry, various insurers have recently left Hartford and moved their operations to other locations, including to some of Hartford's suburbs. Citing the tax structure in the city and parking shortages, MetLife recently vacated several floors in CityPlace, Connecticut's largest office building, and joined CIGNA in a large suburban campus in Bloomfield, Connecticut. Lincoln Financial has recently cut its Hartford workforce, while Travelers elected to construct a sprawling training complex in Windsor, Connecticut, just north of the city. Additionally, MassMutual recently relocated its Hartford operations to Enfield, Connecticut, to be closer to its headquarters in Springfield, Massachusetts, and the insurance giant The Hartford has relocated some of its employees to nearby Simsbury, Connecticut.
At the same time, many companies have moved to or expanded in the central business district and surrounding neighborhoods. Aetna announced mid-decade that by 2010 it would move nearly 3,500 employees from its Middletown, Connecticut offices to its corporate headquarters in the Asylum Hill section of the city. Travelers recently expanded its operations at several downtown locations. In 2008, Sovereign Bank consolidated two bank branches as well as its regional headquarters in a nineteenth century palazzo on Asylum Street. In 2009, Northeast Utilities, a Fortune 500 company and New England's largest energy utility, announced it would establish its corporate headquarters downtown. In the same year, work began at the southeastern corner of Constitution Plaza on the AI Technology Center, the future headquarters of the eponymous engineering firm. AI's chief executive helped finance the building, the first commercially leasable structure in Connecticut to be certified at the platinum level under the US Green Building Council's LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) program. Other recent entrants into the downtown market include GlobeOp Financial Services, internet startup Geezeo and specialty insurance broker S.H. Smith.
[one of the reasons I didn't get my actuarial license was because I didn't want to live in Hartford!]
Hartford is the capital city of the U.S. state of Connecticut. It is located in Hartford County on the Connecticut River....
Nicknamed the "Insurance Capital of the World", Hartford houses many of the world's insurance company headquarters, and insurance remains the region's major industry.
Economy
Hartford is the historic international center of the insurance industry, with companies such as Travelers, Aetna, The Hartford, The Phoenix Companies, Inc. and Hartford Steam Boiler based in the city. The area is also home to CIGNA, Colt Firearms, U.S. Fire Arms and United Technologies.
Nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century Hartford was a major manufacturing and publishing city. Among these was the pioneer bicycle (and later) automobile maker Pope.[22] As in many northern industrial cities, many factories have been closed, relocated, or reduced operations.
Despite the city's lengthy history with the insurance industry, various insurers have recently left Hartford and moved their operations to other locations, including to some of Hartford's suburbs. Citing the tax structure in the city and parking shortages, MetLife recently vacated several floors in CityPlace, Connecticut's largest office building, and joined CIGNA in a large suburban campus in Bloomfield, Connecticut. Lincoln Financial has recently cut its Hartford workforce, while Travelers elected to construct a sprawling training complex in Windsor, Connecticut, just north of the city. Additionally, MassMutual recently relocated its Hartford operations to Enfield, Connecticut, to be closer to its headquarters in Springfield, Massachusetts, and the insurance giant The Hartford has relocated some of its employees to nearby Simsbury, Connecticut.
At the same time, many companies have moved to or expanded in the central business district and surrounding neighborhoods. Aetna announced mid-decade that by 2010 it would move nearly 3,500 employees from its Middletown, Connecticut offices to its corporate headquarters in the Asylum Hill section of the city. Travelers recently expanded its operations at several downtown locations. In 2008, Sovereign Bank consolidated two bank branches as well as its regional headquarters in a nineteenth century palazzo on Asylum Street. In 2009, Northeast Utilities, a Fortune 500 company and New England's largest energy utility, announced it would establish its corporate headquarters downtown. In the same year, work began at the southeastern corner of Constitution Plaza on the AI Technology Center, the future headquarters of the eponymous engineering firm. AI's chief executive helped finance the building, the first commercially leasable structure in Connecticut to be certified at the platinum level under the US Green Building Council's LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) program. Other recent entrants into the downtown market include GlobeOp Financial Services, internet startup Geezeo and specialty insurance broker S.H. Smith.
[one of the reasons I didn't get my actuarial license was because I didn't want to live in Hartford!]
1/2 the people who drive from NY to Boston go through Hartford
I don't know anyone who wants to live there.
by the way- just because Joe says he is going to, doesn't mean he will end up doing it
Joe loves Joe and it got him in the news
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 08:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Funny, Beamer, but the REST OF THE WORLD which uses one form or another of universal health care gets equal or better coverage at half the cost we spend.
Do you know something they don't?
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Oct 29 2009, 07:50 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 08:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Funny, Beamer, but the REST OF THE WORLD which uses one form or another of universal health care gets equal or better coverage at half the cost we spend.
Do you know something they don't?
That's because they ration care and dictate prices. This is not Europe or Japan - Europe with a history of stronger central governments and Japan with a homogeneous culture. We have a different ethic over here. Call it individualism or a love of freedom, but it exists - alongside the desire for community.
Joe Lieberman has a lot of jobs in his state in the insurance industry. He probably is influenced by that and the desire to keep a strong tax base.
Plus, people forget that the big bad insurance companies employ a lot of people - maybe too many. Maybe they're too bureaucratic, just like the government. But it's natural for politicians to protect jobs in their states - whether the companies are giving money to Lieberman for his campaigns or not.
Plus, people forget that the big bad insurance companies employ a lot of people - maybe too many. Maybe they're too bureaucratic, just like the government. But it's natural for politicians to protect jobs in their states - whether the companies are giving money to Lieberman for his campaigns or not.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 29 2009, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Oct 29 2009, 07:50 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 08:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Funny, Beamer, but the REST OF THE WORLD which uses one form or another of universal health care gets equal or better coverage at half the cost we spend.
Do you know something they don't?
That's because they ration care and dictate prices. This is not Europe or Japan - Europe with a history of stronger central governments and Japan with a homogeneous culture. We have a different ethic over here. Call it individualism or a love of freedom, but it exists - alongside the desire for community.
You belong to the BEAMER party.
You are an egotist like Nader,Paul,Perot, WHO ONLY THINKS OF YOUR OWN NEEDS
And 77% of the public WANTS A PUBLIC OPTION
You are in your little dream world spewing false views.
You are for DEATH of the little person who is not working for the gov't in a taxpayer job like you have.
(isn't it some sort of offshoot of the defense department?)
so in essence, taxpayers are indeed paying for YOUR health insurance, aren't they?
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 29 2009, 08:11 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 29 2009, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Oct 29 2009, 07:50 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 08:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Funny, Beamer, but the REST OF THE WORLD which uses one form or another of universal health care gets equal or better coverage at half the cost we spend.
Do you know something they don't?
That's because they ration care and dictate prices. This is not Europe or Japan - Europe with a history of stronger central governments and Japan with a homogeneous culture. We have a different ethic over here. Call it individualism or a love of freedom, but it exists - alongside the desire for community.
You belong to the BEAMER party.
You are an egotist like Nader,Paul,Perot, WHO ONLY THINKS OF YOUR OWN NEEDS
And 77% of the public WANTS A PUBLIC OPTION
You are in your little dream world spewing false views.
You are for DEATH of the little person who is not working for the gov't in a taxpayer job like you have.
(isn't it some sort of offshoot of the defense department?)
so in essence, taxpayers are indeed paying for YOUR health insurance, aren't they?
You're dreaming about the 77%. When people find out that 90% of the people won't even have access to the public option, and that it will increase the deficit, you will see support declining substantially.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 29 2009, 11:41 AM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 29 2009, 08:11 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 29 2009, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Oct 29 2009, 07:50 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 08:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Funny, Beamer, but the REST OF THE WORLD which uses one form or another of universal health care gets equal or better coverage at half the cost we spend.
Do you know something they don't?
That's because they ration care and dictate prices. This is not Europe or Japan - Europe with a history of stronger central governments and Japan with a homogeneous culture. We have a different ethic over here. Call it individualism or a love of freedom, but it exists - alongside the desire for community.
You belong to the BEAMER party.
You are an egotist like Nader,Paul,Perot, WHO ONLY THINKS OF YOUR OWN NEEDS
And 77% of the public WANTS A PUBLIC OPTION
You are in your little dream world spewing false views.
You are for DEATH of the little person who is not working for the gov't in a taxpayer job like you have.
(isn't it some sort of offshoot of the defense department?)
so in essence, taxpayers are indeed paying for YOUR health insurance, aren't they?
You're dreaming about the 77%. When people find out that 90% of the people won't even have access to the public option, and that it will increase the deficit, you will see support declining substantially.
when people find the truth the percent goes up up up (unless you listen to fox)
THAT RETIREES HAVE A PUBLIC PLAN, then it goes up
YOU are lying and delusional and just are 100% greedy
heaven help the day you lose your job and find you get no benefits afterward...you will be whining like you did
in 2008 for Obama to ride in and save your butt, even though you did not vote for Gore (sighhhhhhhhhhhh) and you voted for 41 and Reagan, then you want us to save you.
What part of the fact that 47% of Americans are ALREADY ON A PUBLIC OPTION... and the only ones who aren't are the middle / working class. PERIOD.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 09:59 AM)
What part of the fact that 47% of Americans are ALREADY ON A PUBLIC OPTION... and the only ones who aren't are the middle / working class. PERIOD.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
What we need is a better name for those USAians generally called, "Middle Class." What we are talking about
is Workers with Education and/or Training. What would be a good name for this two thirds of USAians?
QUOTE(rla @ Oct 30 2009, 11:14 AM)
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 09:59 AM)
What part of the fact that 47% of Americans are ALREADY ON A PUBLIC OPTION... and the only ones who aren't are the middle / working class. PERIOD.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
What we need is a better name for those USAians generally called, "Middle Class." What we are talking about
is Workers with Education and/or Training. What would be a good name for this two thirds of USAians?
The Opressed
The Billpayers
The Serfs
The Slaves
The Neglected
The Beasts of Burden
The Unrepresented
The Screwed
are a few that come to mind...
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 27 2009, 09:19 PM)
You guys will object, but when it comes to health care reform, I say thank God for Joe Lieberman! I can't stand Lieberman's hawkish ways. But he is right on this issue, whether his motives are principled or not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/po...ry5425827.shtml
Judd Gregg and Ron Wyden are right. The public option will increase the size of the government and further bankrupt this nation.
Beamer...we have been through this ad nauseum with you...
Without a public option there is no incentive for insurance companies to be more competitive and provide better coverage for people at cheaper prices...
You are wrong on this...dead wrong...IMHO...
And Lieberman with this position is demonstrating that he is once again in line with sabotaging reform...when our nation needs it most...
It is sad to see that you agree with him in this regard.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 08:59 AM)
What part of the fact that 47% of Americans are ALREADY ON A PUBLIC OPTION... and the only ones who aren't are the middle / working class. PERIOD.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
Night Owl .... it don't matter what they do when it's all said and done we the people are gonna get screwed.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
QUOTE(jimiray @ Oct 30 2009, 12:11 PM)
Night Owl .... it don't matter what they do when it's all said and done we the people are gonna get screwed.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
My position EXACTLY. Medicare for ALL.... and insurance companies should be forced to be NON-PROFIT organizations. Take the profit out of being the middle man. In effect that is ALL that insurance companies are... passing along OUR money to the providers and taking a 30% cut for doing so.... and then dictating coverage for those that actually cost them money. Nothing like having a business model that allows you to exclude any customer that you might lose money on.
Aside from that insurance companies are amoral and border on immoral... as they dictate healthcare for the sick and prevent people from getting the care they need... AND they profit on sickness.
Something wrong with this picture. How any Christian can support the current system is beyond me... but why should it. The CC/RW element of this nation is the biggest bunch of hypocrites you'll find anywhere.
imho
What I don't get is
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 30 2009, 02:09 PM)
What I don't get is
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
Well Graham, let's give them all the same plan that the rest of us get... NO MEDICARE, NO VA, NO MEDICAID, NO FEDERAL HEALTH INSURANCE, NO GOVERNMENT PAID FRINGES.
All those who oppose the public option should, by their beliefs, be the first to forfeit or disavow their own publicly derived benefits.
Let's see who steps up to the plate.
Let's just see.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 02:13 PM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 30 2009, 02:09 PM)
What I don't get is
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
Well Graham, let's give them all the same plan that the rest of us get... NO MEDICARE, NO VA, NO MEDICAID, NO FEDERAL HEALTH INSURANCE, NO GOVERNMENT PAID FRINGES.
All those who oppose the public option should, by their beliefs, be the first to forfeit or disavow their own publicly derived benefits.
Let's see who steps up to the plate.
Let's just see.
Just selfish Reaganesque GREED
So typical of the Reagan's and Bush's
77% of the public supports it.
and just today Lieberman said he will actively support republicans in 2010 and 2012
He should be tossed from power today, and in thanking Joe, they should make a peace agreement with Iran and tell Joe Lieberman to f- off.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 11:02 AM)
QUOTE(rla @ Oct 30 2009, 11:14 AM)
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 09:59 AM)
What part of the fact that 47% of Americans are ALREADY ON A PUBLIC OPTION... and the only ones who aren't are the middle / working class. PERIOD.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
The working class is footing the bill for the entire public program but not able to participate.... and even worse, get to be screwed by the health insurance companies until they reach age 65 when THEY become covered by the PUBLIC OPTION called Medicare. Funny how the insurance companies get to take money from the working class all the years that they work and then when they retire... they pass the liability for covering the working class over to the PUBLIC OPTION.
They collect their premiums during everyones' healthy years... and then let the public plan pay the bills when the benefits have to pay.
And then... they are allowed to legally collude to make sure that they are in step in screwing the public. They can fix prices, determine eligibility, limit coverage, and kick people out of the plan or disallow needed procedures. AND... NONE of this will change without a public option or direct government regulation. Period.
So... ill-guided opponents of a public plan are fighting to hurt the only ones who are already suffering. America's middle class.
Go ahead and pay the bills of the poor, the elderly, the veterans... and make the Middle Class pay for it... and don't dare allow them participation in any plan that provides a benefit to them.
Yep... screw us all... and fight like Hell to make sure that insurance companies can continue to do so.
What we need is a better name for those USAians generally called, "Middle Class." What we are talking about
is Workers with Education and/or Training. What would be a good name for this two thirds of USAians?
The Opressed
The Billpayers
The Serfs
The Slaves
The Neglected
The Beasts of Burden
The Unrepresented
The Screwed
are a few that come to mind...
These are all appropriate concepts for a therapeutic context...
After we blow off a little steam, we still need to market our position to the public...
What are we willing to be known as, other than the Middle Class?
The Majority
Consummers
Workers
?
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Oct 30 2009, 11:13 AM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 30 2009, 02:09 PM)
What I don't get is
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
BEAMER works in some way for the gov't or subsidiary
therefore- THE TAXPAYER is already paying for her insurance.
How selfish.
How greedy.
She already has a PUBLIC OPTION.
Well Graham, let's give them all the same plan that the rest of us get... NO MEDICARE, NO VA, NO MEDICAID, NO FEDERAL HEALTH INSURANCE, NO GOVERNMENT PAID FRINGES.
All those who oppose the public option should, by their beliefs, be the first to forfeit or disavow their own publicly derived benefits.
Let's see who steps up to the plate.
Let's just see.
Well, I think Medicare should be abolished except for the truly poor. Same with Medicaid. Third party payers are the reason we have high health care costs. That includes insurance companies and with employers. Why was it that when I was younger, people didn't need anything but major medical coverage? You had insurance to protect you from an emergency. Same with home insurance or auto insurance. You don't have car insurance to replace a busted wiper blade or a blown tire. You don't have home insurance to purchase new windows for your house - unless they were blown out by a tornado or something. The only way to reduce costs is to make people responsible for their own health care.
talk about egotistical tripe ideas self-centered on you
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 31 2009, 01:21 PM)
talk about egotistical tripe ideas self-centered on you
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
This is why I won't donate to this site.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 31 2009, 03:32 PM)
Well, I think Medicare should be abolished except for the truly poor. Same with Medicaid. Third party payers are the reason we have high health care costs. That includes insurance companies and with employers. Why was it that when I was younger, people didn't need anything but major medical coverage? You had insurance to protect you from an emergency. Same with home insurance or auto insurance. You don't have car insurance to replace a busted wiper blade or a blown tire. You don't have home insurance to purchase new windows for your house - unless they were blown out by a tornado or something. The only way to reduce costs is to make people responsible for their own health care.
I can go so far as to say that medicare should be means tested, but then, look what happens to people's opinion of what they don't get anything from. If people are not benefiting from something themselves they want it taken away from those who are, even if they need it. So, the reason medicare and social security passed and survive is because all people benefit from it.
Medicaid: Well, I don't know about CA, but in Georgia you have to have an income below the poverty line: 20,000 a year. Plus you may not own any assets above 2,000. You must be over 65, or have kids that are dependent on you and those kids must be your birth children or you had to adopt them officially. The only other way to receive Medicaid is to be declared officially disabled by the Social Security administration. You may not be single with no kids nor a step-parent (even if the parent of the children is disabled it doesn't count). You may not have simply applied for disability, it must have been declared valid by the SS admin which can take years.
So, no kids, no officially sanctioned disability and not over 65, over 21K a year, or savings over 2000 or a car/house over 2000 dollars then no medicaid at all! No hospital will see you unless it is an emergency and then they will only stabalize you.....and there are no free clinics, they all charge at least 40 dollars and that's just for the visit.
When we were younger, the cost of health care was a lot lower, and "major medical" meant a much broader spectrum of services that the insurance companies that work for profit have excluded. Remember when hospitals were all run for charity and different nuns worked in the hospitals? That was replaced in the 1980's, and 90's by large conglomerates like HCA, who went around buying up those hospitals and the charities could no longer compete, so they sold out to the three largest for profit hospital chains in the country.
If the price to replace a new window for your home was a cool quarter million you would not be able to replace it. If the price of price of a new tire were 1000 dollars you would have to have insurance to cover repiars like that. If the cost of a trip to the doctor with tests needed is always over a thousand dollars you can bet you NEED insurance for those "little things" that aren't so little anymore.
Right now Beamer, there is a small epidemic of whooping cough and the H1N1 virus spreading around in the local schools. The cost of a vaccination for Whooping Cough is about 100, but if someone doesn't have the extra 100, they keep putting it off, if they get it and spread it, then many will end up in the hospital on the taxpayers dime. What are you going to do, tell the child that has it that they can't get better because their parents were unable to afford the money to vaccinate them? Not only that but the CDC says *I* need a booster shot because immunity wanes even if you had the vaccine as a child...it's only because I called them to see, otherwise I would never know that I could get it since I had the immunization....but I can't afford the vaccine. Then, the H1N1 is going around, but if I get it, and I want or need the medication to ensure it doesn't turn into pneumonia, I can't afford to fill the prescription so I will just have to hope it doesn't. Otherwise, I will have to be hospitalized, at which point they will give me the Tamiflu, but charge me a fortune along with the hospital bill, which will ruin my credit because I can't pay it and that will greatly interfere with my ability to rent an apartment or even get a job!
These are the realities Beamer, not the "way it should be's" that you are talking about. I agree with your ideals in many ways, but they just don't work in practice.
heart,
Qualifications for Medi-Cal are similar to Georgia Medicaid.
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal/P...ligibility.aspx
I hear what you're saying, and you're right. Medical costs are much higher now than they were when I was a child. People paid cash when they went to the doctor. The cost was probably about $25. Now, just for a routine exam, it's over $100. A dental exam with a couple of x-rays is about $250. So, yes, to pay these costs out-of-pocket, not to mention the common diagnostic exams like colonoscopies or mammograms or even simple blood tests, are more than most people can afford - unless they have some kind of savings account for health care. And, I agree that the big hospital corporations have become too big.
Health care is big business. But, how did it become so? I would posit that it was the entry of Medicare into the health care system that spurred the increase in cost because it distorted the market.
I hear you also that we have to deal with reality, but what if that reality is causing the United States to sink into bankruptcy and states like California to already be there? The status quo cannot be maintained or I'm afraid that our country will sink to second-rate status. We might already be there if it weren't for our military supremacy.
I will reiterate that the only way to reduce costs of medical care is to reduce demand.
For routine things like immunizations, maybe there should be free clinics that dispense them that are subsidized by the state or federal government. But the rest of it is really our responsibility. I know I might sing a different tune if I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I wanted the latest, very costly treatment. But, I work at a company that provides very good health benefits, and I have made sacrifices for that security.
Qualifications for Medi-Cal are similar to Georgia Medicaid.
QUOTE
If you are enrolled in one of the following programs, you can get Medi-Cal:
SSI/SSP
CalWorks (AFDC)
Refugee Assistance
Foster Care or Adoption Assistance Program
In-Home Supportive Services (IHSS)
You can also get Medi-Cal if you are:
65 or older
Blind
Disabled
Under 21
Pregnant
In a skilled nursing or intermediate care home
On refugee status for a limited time, depending how long you have been in the United States
A parent or caretaker relative or a child under 21 if:
The child's parent is deceased or doesn't live with the child, or
The child's parent is incapacitated, or
The child's parent is under employed or unemployed
Have been screened for breast and/or cervical cancer (Breast and Cervical Cancer Treatment Program)
SSI/SSP
CalWorks (AFDC)
Refugee Assistance
Foster Care or Adoption Assistance Program
In-Home Supportive Services (IHSS)
You can also get Medi-Cal if you are:
65 or older
Blind
Disabled
Under 21
Pregnant
In a skilled nursing or intermediate care home
On refugee status for a limited time, depending how long you have been in the United States
A parent or caretaker relative or a child under 21 if:
The child's parent is deceased or doesn't live with the child, or
The child's parent is incapacitated, or
The child's parent is under employed or unemployed
Have been screened for breast and/or cervical cancer (Breast and Cervical Cancer Treatment Program)
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal/P...ligibility.aspx
I hear what you're saying, and you're right. Medical costs are much higher now than they were when I was a child. People paid cash when they went to the doctor. The cost was probably about $25. Now, just for a routine exam, it's over $100. A dental exam with a couple of x-rays is about $250. So, yes, to pay these costs out-of-pocket, not to mention the common diagnostic exams like colonoscopies or mammograms or even simple blood tests, are more than most people can afford - unless they have some kind of savings account for health care. And, I agree that the big hospital corporations have become too big.
Health care is big business. But, how did it become so? I would posit that it was the entry of Medicare into the health care system that spurred the increase in cost because it distorted the market.
I hear you also that we have to deal with reality, but what if that reality is causing the United States to sink into bankruptcy and states like California to already be there? The status quo cannot be maintained or I'm afraid that our country will sink to second-rate status. We might already be there if it weren't for our military supremacy.
I will reiterate that the only way to reduce costs of medical care is to reduce demand.
For routine things like immunizations, maybe there should be free clinics that dispense them that are subsidized by the state or federal government. But the rest of it is really our responsibility. I know I might sing a different tune if I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I wanted the latest, very costly treatment. But, I work at a company that provides very good health benefits, and I have made sacrifices for that security.
tool.
and cheap too.
and cheap too.
you have been outed
YOUR personal job is 100% dependent on NO PUBLIC OPTION
and that also means YOUR personal insurance depends on NO PUBLIC OPTION
i.e. YOUR NOT spewwing a political view
YOU are spewing the tool view
knowing that if you lose this issue, you lose YOUR government run health insurance that costs you pennies
so indeed, you and Evan Bayh's wife and therefore Evan Bayh and Joe Lieberman are similiar
YOU want to keep the public down, so you can remain, even if 77% of the public does not agree with you
and you will only see the light and folly of that thinking, in the future when your job and insurance does not exist anymore.
(and the foolishness will also be, when NO ONE can afford it, everyone would then qualify under your inane ideas because they would then be POOR.
(btw- Lou Dobbs has caused CNN's ratings to tank, and soon he will be unceremoniously fired...Fox will probably pick him up, but his career will never
be what it was, all because he is a racist hatriot. Good riddance to rubbish Lou). unfair and 100% unbalanced loubaby.
YOUR personal job is 100% dependent on NO PUBLIC OPTION
and that also means YOUR personal insurance depends on NO PUBLIC OPTION
i.e. YOUR NOT spewwing a political view
YOU are spewing the tool view
knowing that if you lose this issue, you lose YOUR government run health insurance that costs you pennies
so indeed, you and Evan Bayh's wife and therefore Evan Bayh and Joe Lieberman are similiar
YOU want to keep the public down, so you can remain, even if 77% of the public does not agree with you
and you will only see the light and folly of that thinking, in the future when your job and insurance does not exist anymore.
(and the foolishness will also be, when NO ONE can afford it, everyone would then qualify under your inane ideas because they would then be POOR.
(btw- Lou Dobbs has caused CNN's ratings to tank, and soon he will be unceremoniously fired...Fox will probably pick him up, but his career will never
be what it was, all because he is a racist hatriot. Good riddance to rubbish Lou). unfair and 100% unbalanced loubaby.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Oct 31 2009, 07:44 PM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 31 2009, 01:21 PM)
talk about egotistical tripe ideas self-centered on you
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
Ah, people did have insurance,
people do have glass insurance for their cars
people should ALL BE INSURED
every single person in America should become a citizen right now automatic
shame the racists like Lou Dobbs and the border insaniacs and freakazoids are so prejudiced they can't see the truth
IF all those people were citizens, then all those people would be paying hundreds of millions toward all the costs
How shortsided and racist and prejudiced and biased to hate those kind gentle souls
(who most certainly are not the lazy couch sitting, swearing, drinking beer moaning about anyone and everyone, while they are too lazy to work
watching cars go round a race track zoom zoom zoom as their inane lives pass them by
Maybe in those people world, they would toss all the non-rich into those ovens like they did to Roman Polanski's mother
This is why I won't donate to this site.
go bow down to your God, Lou the racist Dobbs
the world has now seen what a lowlife scumbag he really is
and his importance is non-existent in the world anymore
and we see that you are short sighted, now we know you don't understand how government is funded
and are just plum cheap and greedy aren't you?
You won't donate to this site, yet you will yap a mile a minute, won't you?
but of course, conservatives who voted for Reagan and the Bush's always want the poor to pay, and you would rather RWS and livy and snuffy finance your right to yackadoodle for the next year.
(When you can afford to pay for the entire cost just you alone if you wanted too).
I know, if this were 2012, all things as they are, if you had the choice between Obama and Jeb Bush, you would again click Bush.
now that you admitted, and we got all the cards out on the table.
Maynard has a great song you should listen to, speaking of tools
Graham, it's not my fault that you don't have insurance. Go get a job that offers it. People with jobs and insurance shouldn't have to pay for people who don't have them. Sorry if that's selfish to you, but I work for my money and my benefits. It's mine. The government already takes plenty of my money.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Nov 1 2009, 01:54 PM)
Graham, it's not my fault that you don't have insurance. Go get a job that offers it. People with jobs and insurance shouldn't have to pay for people who don't have them. Sorry if that's selfish to you, but I work for my money and my benefits. It's mine. The government already takes plenty of my money.
you must be some sort of major idiot
You must be the only one here who is clueless
I HAVE INSURANCE
IT COSTS ME $2750 A MONTH
THAT IS $30,000 GRAND A YEAR
and every year it goes up.
And that includes a big deductible.
What kind of obnoxious a-hole are you? Do you not know how to read English?
every single other person here on this board past and present could tell you that
yet again, you have said this bold face lie.
But then, tools are paid to lie.
you been outed.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Nov 1 2009, 11:07 AM)
QUOTE(Beamer @ Nov 1 2009, 01:54 PM)
Graham, it's not my fault that you don't have insurance. Go get a job that offers it. People with jobs and insurance shouldn't have to pay for people who don't have them. Sorry if that's selfish to you, but I work for my money and my benefits. It's mine. The government already takes plenty of my money.
you must be some sort of major idiot
You must be the only one here who is clueless
I HAVE INSURANCE
IT COSTS ME $2750 A MONTH
THAT IS $30,000 GRAND A YEAR
and every year it goes up.
And that includes a big deductible.
What kind of obnoxious a-hole are you? Do you not know how to read English?
every single other person here on this board past and present could tell you that
yet again, you have said this bold face lie.
But then, tools are paid to lie.
you been outed.
Sorry you have to pay such high insurance rates. That's why reform is needed. I just don't agree with the kind of reform you and many of the Dems think we should have. I have already stated my support for Wyden-Bennett.
Lieberman was on Face the Nation today. He was very persuasive.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=548...ain;contentBody
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=548...ain;contentBody
QUOTE(Beamer @ Nov 1 2009, 04:26 PM)
Lieberman was on Face the Nation today. He was very persuasive.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=548...ain;contentBody
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=548...ain;contentBody
I watched him and almost puked...
Yeah... who wants radical change with health insurance.
If we have a public option something might actually change... and who wants that.
If anyone cannot read through the BS and see that without forcing insurance companies to voluntarily change with the indirect pressure of a public option and anti-competitive measures, then the only alternative would be direct legislative control of heathcare and insurance.
The fact that the insurance companies have already poured millions and millions of dollars into fighting the public option should tell all that need be told. That would pale in comparison to the effort to oppose stringent regulation... not to mention that it's hard to pressure our big insurance, big bank, big pharma funded Congress to do anything that threatens the profits of their corporate benefactors. Just think of the quandry that the Congress would be in if faced with having to make a real choice to directly impose regulations. The past history should tell the whole story.
How likely does anyone think it is that real change can be effected without a real push ? How likely is it that anything gets done if Congress cannot even get a moderate measure like a public option put in place when 70 percent, give or take, are in favor of it ?
The writing is on the wall... and it appears that there are some who can't read it.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Nov 2 2009, 08:46 AM)
Yeah... who wants radical change with health insurance.
If we have a public option something might actually change... and who wants that.
If anyone cannot read through the BS and see that without forcing insurance companies to voluntarily change with the indirect pressure of a public option and anti-competitive measures, then the only alternative would be direct legislative control of heathcare and insurance.
The fact that the insurance companies have already poured millions and millions of dollars into fighting the public option should tell all that need be told. That would pale in comparison to the effort to oppose stringent regulation... not to mention that it's hard to pressure our big insurance, big bank, big pharma funded Congress to do anything that threatens the profits of their corporate benefactors. Just think of the quandry that the Congress would be in if faced with having to make a real choice to directly impose regulations. The past history should tell the whole story.
How likely does anyone think it is that real change can be effected without a real push ? How likely is it that anything gets done if Congress cannot even get a moderate measure like a public option put in place when 70 percent, give or take, are in favor of it ?
The writing is on the wall... and it appears that there are some who can't read it.
If we have a public option something might actually change... and who wants that.
If anyone cannot read through the BS and see that without forcing insurance companies to voluntarily change with the indirect pressure of a public option and anti-competitive measures, then the only alternative would be direct legislative control of heathcare and insurance.
The fact that the insurance companies have already poured millions and millions of dollars into fighting the public option should tell all that need be told. That would pale in comparison to the effort to oppose stringent regulation... not to mention that it's hard to pressure our big insurance, big bank, big pharma funded Congress to do anything that threatens the profits of their corporate benefactors. Just think of the quandry that the Congress would be in if faced with having to make a real choice to directly impose regulations. The past history should tell the whole story.
How likely does anyone think it is that real change can be effected without a real push ? How likely is it that anything gets done if Congress cannot even get a moderate measure like a public option put in place when 70 percent, give or take, are in favor of it ?
The writing is on the wall... and it appears that there are some who can't read it.
Why do you want to bankrupt our country?
lies beamer, lies
maynard is what you are.
industry tool.
maynard is what you are.
industry tool.
QUOTE(jimiray @ Oct 30 2009, 10:11 AM)
Night Owl .... it don't matter what they do when it's all said and done we the people are gonna get screwed.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
I've had top of the line health insurance for over twenty years and hardly ever used it myself. My wife and kids were a different story though and I was glad I had insurance at the time. But ........ even though I had good top of the line insurance they always screwed you. Every time you got a statement showing what they paid out ...... Doctor , Hospital , Lab , etc......
They never allowed the dollar amount that was charged by the Doctor or Hospital or whatever. It was always above and beyond what should be charged so you got stuck with the difference. They got all kinds of ways they use to screw people like that.
And then you have the "public option" .... I used to wonder what happened to all the doctors who barely graduated Med School
Now I know
There are a whole lot of good Doctors that WILL NOT see Medicare or Medicaid patients simply because they can't afford the malpractice insurance for what they pay out. The government is gonna screw them worse than Blue Cross Blue Shield would. If you really want to reform health care we should start with the insurance companies that sell malpractice insurance to doctors.
What should be done is everyone get the public option ..... Medicare for every citizen of this country.
AND limit the profit % an Insurance company make.
This is a knee-jerk reaction if ever there was one...
The idea that doctors do not need to conform to a standard of care...no matter where they were in their med school graduating class is silly...
What? You really do need to explain your rationale regarding why doctor's will not see Medicare and Medicaid patients because they can't afford the med mal practice insurance?
I think you have been spending too much time on the AMA website, or listening to the right wing conservatives offer their phony commentary that health care costs are so high because of med mal lawsuits... which has been disproven over and over and over again...
If anyhing, there should be many more lawsuits than there are now because of the level of malpractice that takes place...but many people do not have the means to bring such suits...
A public option would place pressure on insurance companies to compete or risk losing their market share...and with it their profit...
But in a capitalistic economy to suggest a limit on profit I think is a recipe for disaster...
hey taz eee
YOUR joe lieberman is going to fillibuster
that's your Joeybaby, him and evie baby
bluedog schmuckazoas
every single one should be put in Gitmo forever.
YOUR joe lieberman is going to fillibuster
that's your Joeybaby, him and evie baby
bluedog schmuckazoas
every single one should be put in Gitmo forever.
QUOTE(Beamer @ Nov 3 2009, 02:36 AM)
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Nov 2 2009, 08:46 AM)
Yeah... who wants radical change with health insurance.
If we have a public option something might actually change... and who wants that.
If anyone cannot read through the BS and see that without forcing insurance companies to voluntarily change with the indirect pressure of a public option and anti-competitive measures, then the only alternative would be direct legislative control of heathcare and insurance.
The fact that the insurance companies have already poured millions and millions of dollars into fighting the public option should tell all that need be told. That would pale in comparison to the effort to oppose stringent regulation... not to mention that it's hard to pressure our big insurance, big bank, big pharma funded Congress to do anything that threatens the profits of their corporate benefactors. Just think of the quandry that the Congress would be in if faced with having to make a real choice to directly impose regulations. The past history should tell the whole story.
How likely does anyone think it is that real change can be effected without a real push ? How likely is it that anything gets done if Congress cannot even get a moderate measure like a public option put in place when 70 percent, give or take, are in favor of it ?
The writing is on the wall... and it appears that there are some who can't read it.
If we have a public option something might actually change... and who wants that.
If anyone cannot read through the BS and see that without forcing insurance companies to voluntarily change with the indirect pressure of a public option and anti-competitive measures, then the only alternative would be direct legislative control of heathcare and insurance.
The fact that the insurance companies have already poured millions and millions of dollars into fighting the public option should tell all that need be told. That would pale in comparison to the effort to oppose stringent regulation... not to mention that it's hard to pressure our big insurance, big bank, big pharma funded Congress to do anything that threatens the profits of their corporate benefactors. Just think of the quandry that the Congress would be in if faced with having to make a real choice to directly impose regulations. The past history should tell the whole story.
How likely does anyone think it is that real change can be effected without a real push ? How likely is it that anything gets done if Congress cannot even get a moderate measure like a public option put in place when 70 percent, give or take, are in favor of it ?
The writing is on the wall... and it appears that there are some who can't read it.
Why do you want to bankrupt our country?
the funny thing is, you hate Joe and Jews (according to all the posts you have put up over the years, a few years ago you found one anti-semetic writer after another and posted them
Now you are making lovey dovey eyes to Joe Lieberman...has he converted all of a sudden? I thought he was Jewish???
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